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Opening Prayer Appropriate For Jackson Center Event

June 16, 2013

To The Readers’ Forum: I congratulate the organizers at the Robert H....

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Jun-26-13 1:37 PM

Think of it as social evolution. (Uh oh, I used the “E” word!)

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Jun-26-13 1:37 PM

To attempt to answer your question though Snow (even if you’ll dislike the answer) I would say that my sense of ‘right and wrong’ came as a combination of multiple factors, primarily cultural indoctrination. I was raised in such a way that taught me certain morals germane to the culture I was born in to. You do not need to be religious to teach your children to be decent human beings. Speaking of human beings, that brings me to my second factor regarding the development of morality: we as humans are naturally social animals. We have to function in such a way as to get along with our fellow humans. If someone behaved in a way that was ‘immoral’ then it’s quite likely that such an individual would be ostracized or punished, whether we’re speaking 6,000 years ago or yesterday. All the things we call ‘morals’ are really nothing more than ingrained (biological and social) lessons that we've learned in order to function and be successful as part of the human race.

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Jun-26-13 12:26 PM

I'm not going to be drawn into a theological debate. I've beaten that dead horse many, many times in the past and I've learned one thing. No amount of rationality, evidence, or logic will ever change a true believer's mind. It's a lost cause.

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Jun-21-13 10:01 AM

Further, Those cell phones, welfare checks, food stamps, taxi rides, Dr. appts., hospital visits, utility bills, rent pd., etc etc ad nausea...DO NOT COME FROM B.H.O. either. These all come from your neighbors who WORK for a living! (They are not "obama phones", they are stolen phones)

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Jun-21-13 9:58 AM

You waste your words Mr. Apologetics, This crowd does not want to be confused with the facts. It's like the exit polling of those who voted Obama into office; they haven't got a clue! Hint: (The light of day comes from God via the SUN , it's not from B.H.O.)

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Jun-20-13 10:04 PM

Rationality... what is it's source? Morality right and wrong what is its source? Morality assumes a standard and what then is its standard?

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Jun-20-13 12:02 PM

funny, boys.... funny. Of course everyone who doesn't hate God knows the USA was founded upon the rock of christianity! You have to LOOK into it, not SPIT at it. daheee

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Jun-19-13 8:24 PM

Snow: Let's face it. You are a fundamentalist, literal interpretation, six literal days of creation and all that. No discussions about rational morality will ever sway your thinking. Correct?

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Jun-19-13 8:01 PM

This is getting boring, Snow. It's always the same rhetorical, "[insert username here], when you say..."

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Jun-19-13 4:35 PM

RationalThinker, when you say, I do not need a higher power to tell me what is right and what is wrong. Especially when such a higher power is open to so much human interpretation," then where do you get your sense of right and wrong from?.

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Jun-18-13 7:36 AM

But but but...Salman is a Christian! Isn't fraud morally wrong?

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Jun-18-13 6:39 AM

Lone: When your "facts" come from Fox, you might want to double check. The dispute has been going on since 2009 and isn't about "Bible study" in his living room. He's cramming 250 people into a space that doesn't meet safety codes, has been warned repeatedly and is now screaming persecution to all the fundamentalist fools within range of Fox.

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Jun-17-13 11:44 PM

I looked it up:

"Former gang member/"Pastor" Michael Salman -- who falsely cried persecution to any media outlet that would buy his story last year -- is once again a convicted felon.

Salman pleaded guilty to felony theft and felony forgery last week, as Salman, his wife, and his brother admitted to defrauding AHCCCS, the state's Medicaid program, of more than $118,000."


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Jun-17-13 12:23 PM

It never ceases to amaze me how many people seem to think that morality was invented by Christianity. I, and millions or Atheists like me, are 'good without god'. I do not need a higher power to tell me what is right and what is wrong. Especially when such a higher power is open to so much human interpretation.

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Jun-17-13 6:33 AM

I prayed for wisdom. Then I did the one thing most "Christians" seldom do: I read the Bible.

As a result, I'm an atheist.

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Jun-17-13 6:00 AM

Thank you for your prayers, HeLives, but please don't be so arrogant as to presume that I, and perhaps Emelye and Coppergoat, too, "refuse to accept Jesus Christ." Unfortunately, it's the fundamentalists who have blinders on.

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Jun-16-13 10:44 PM

Fight the good fight, Pastor Jeff. Let them hear the truth, our "paramount importance", the Written Word of our God. ISAIAH 43:8 "Lead out THOSE who have eyes but are blind, who have EARS but are deaf." I pray for you Coppergoat, for you Jhwinnyc, for you Emelye, and all others who refuse to accept Jesus Christ and His righteousness. I pray that The Holy Spirit of God will open your eyes and warm your cold hearts before you die. With much love, HELIVES. (Just passin' thru!)

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Jun-16-13 8:14 PM

Emelye, can you discern from the quote by Hitler the brazen distortions and deceptions in his words? Sadly, there were so many so-called Christians who bought into his arrogant, heretical, anti-biblical,and anti-evangelical views. Thankfully, there were those who stayed true to what the Bible said. The confessing movement in Germany didn't side with Hitler, but vigorously opposed him theologically even while a large group of churches fell for liberalized theology and it played out politically in siding with the Third Reich. Pastor Short recognizes that the Nazis hated evangelical Christianity and wanted it destroyed after the Jews. Hitler hated moral absolutes like the Ten Commandments and only used Christian lingo to fake out the gullible and advance his evil cause. There is a transcendant morality like Pastor Short said even as the Nazis rejected it.

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Jun-16-13 1:52 PM

I wonder how it is that people like Pastor Short can be so selective in their reading of history until I remember how selective they are in reading the Bible, a book they claim to be of paramount importance to their lives. If the Jackson Center, as a private organization, wants to avail themselves of a Christian prayer at the beginning of their ceremonies it is, of course, within their rights to do that but to conflate this choice to applying one variation of Christian dogma to our entire population via legal force is, in my opinion, anti-American.

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Jun-16-13 1:48 PM

"And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

This is what Pastor Short is comparing people to.

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Jun-16-13 1:47 PM

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice..."

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Jun-16-13 1:08 PM

If that's the "one thing we learned from the WWII Tribunal" , he's a poor student.

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Jun-16-13 8:34 AM

Last week? Aren't we a bit outdated?

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Jun-16-13 8:08 AM

Oh, these poor fundamentalist apologists! It doesn`t require anything transcendant like God or belief in the supernatural for Albert the Atheist or Maria the Agnostic to know whether murder is right or wrong. You suggest that anyone not being a theist has no rational moral code of their own to go by. You believe non-theists are nihilists unable to distinguish good acts from evil acts. See Kant's moral law within.

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Jun-16-13 7:21 AM

"If you don't follow MY moral dictates and MY interpretation of the Magic Book, then YOU are like Hitler!" LOL.

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