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Kudos To The Elimination Of Hispanic Navigator

June 27, 2013

To The Reader’s Forum: Kudos to the elimination of the Hispanic navigator....

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(103)

50s4ever

Jul-04-13 4:57 PM

I'm so glad our gov't spends billions on satisfying foreigners who don't speak the language of the country they live in, instead of ...say...putting it toward jobs and cutting edge prosthetics for wounded warriors? Ya.

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HenryH

Jul-03-13 10:53 AM

Feddie, I get the financial argument. It is flimsy and suspect but one I can respect although wouldn't champion myself.

I am not sure why you would not want to ensure access to every major language. Being English-only, as in France with French-only, creates more problems than it solves. If you are saying the main motivation is to prevent litigation, we know that this is unobtainable based on current precedent. In the US, you can always sue. Again, it makes the your argument superficial.

In regards to 'lazy', I apologize. It was Doggie that made that comment. My mistake.

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Renaldo

Jul-03-13 8:39 AM

Fedup, bravo to you... you are one of the very few that is true and without hidden agenda.

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FedUpL8ly

Jul-03-13 3:14 AM

HenryH, you're starting to resemble GioAllie in your comments. You're reading comprehension must be abysmal or you're having a few too many of something before you logon to this website. I haven't ever posted anything that called Puerto Ricans lazy. Also, you are quite detached from common sense when it comes to making English the official language. Nobody would have to enforce this as it wouldn't even be required to speak English. It would merely prevent lawsuits forcing the printing of government forms in scores of languages. It's been explained numerous times but for some reason you're the only one here who can't quite grasp the concept. You dismiss the tens of millions of dollars wasted as but a mere drop in the bucket when compared to all of the wasted resources by the Obama administration.

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HenryH

Jul-03-13 3:11 AM

It just dawned on me Lone as I sip my tea, maybe the challenge of our communication is that I've used Latin and Italian in my comments. As you are a staunch English-purist {joke intended} shall I go back and translate those words for you? Would that help with your formation of a counter argument that after 137 posts you've yet to articulate a clear and concise argument for further legislation. Only argument so far has been Feddie's position of 'It costs too much'.

So Lone, just once articulate why a language is required for an effective nation especially when it has not been an issue in that nation's development?

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HenryH

Jul-03-13 1:45 AM

Feddie, you have to admit you have written some pretty awful things about Puerto Ricans in particular using such terms as 'lazy' as a mass classifier. That certainly is not what my Grandmother would call 'acceptable language' so many years ago when she was teaching me manners. Most would say that is hateful speech but if your Grandmother had a different definition of it, we're open to having you explain that to us.

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HenryH

Jul-03-13 1:40 AM

Lone, you really need to spend more time with a history book. What war did we fight to not be like 'them'?

Repeat #99 - Why do we need laws to legislate language? Have you ever visited a large city? You know there are whole neighborhoods where you do not even need English to live? These neighborhoods are Garrison Beach, Brooklyn - Russian; Glendale - Armenian; Buena Vista, Miami - Spanish; Chinatown (Chicago / LA / NYC) - Chinese; Deerborn - Arabic; and on and on and on ...

We have a linga franca but not a national language. We should never legislate culture. Language does not divide culture.

Keep trying Lone. You can't have your cake and eat it too, meaning you cannot legislate culture yet tear down government. Tell me, how are you going to enforce the use of English? You are being impractical and anti-business.

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FedUpL8ly

Jul-02-13 8:20 PM

Emelye, although I don't know you, I'm sure you're a good person and the world would probably be a better place if everyone were like you but you do seem to personify the typical Liberal/Progressive in that anyone who shares your opinions/beliefs is reasonable and all those who differ are bigots, haters and xenophobes. Would you agree with someone who referred to yourself as "heterophobic"? I think not. And no, I'm not angry about this tendency to elevate the opinions of those who agree with you as it's only symptomatic of human nature.

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HenryH

Jul-02-13 2:51 PM

Feddie, I called up business associates in Germany and the Netherlands today. We discussed immigration and borders. As they put it, you can pretty much move anywhere you wish and within a short period of time achieve citizenship if you wish. Exceptions are Switzerland and Norway which are not in the EU but allow people to flow through their country and have easy access to employment. Challenges remain with the Balkans and Turkey. However, labor flows freely and employment is not restricted. The European Neighborhood will soon be extending to Israel (if it is not already) and the souther caucuses are in talks with the EU about similar participation.

Although certainly not my utopian ideal, it is a far cry from our militarized southern border.

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HenryH

Jul-02-13 2:43 PM

Emelye, thanks for the comment. Kind of you. Funny, I tend to be far more conservative than the Peanut Gallery. I, like you, am content that no one with an objective viewpoint will offer it as they will be shouted down via the use of abstract fallacy. I suspect that many who continue to chirp away lack in critical skill sets and do not see the conflicts with their own ontology.

In the end, I respect their right to disagree and I could accept their view point if it were well reasoned. However, the prevailing opinion is well entwined in xenophobia. Sad the effort is not put into joining up our community. Differences and finding common understanding make us stronger.

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HenryH

Jul-02-13 2:38 PM

Doggie, so your rebuttal is to repeat the question? Do you know what the EU is? How can you simply repeat the question without offering why my position is not valid? Quid pro quo my dear Pet.

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Emelye

Jul-02-13 12:42 PM

When I look at the Like/Dislike in this discussion thread I find that pretty much all fair minded and rational people have left the room. The prejudice and irrational have chased almost everyone else out except for HenryH. Kudos to you, sir, for answering the xenophobia with calm reason and fact in the face of insult and personal disparagement.

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HenryH

Jul-02-13 1:22 AM

How's it bogus Feddie? The free flow of labor to support economic purposes is clearly evident. As a matter of fact, it is a central aspect to the EU policy.

And, with all due respect to my long departed grandmother, Germans are not xenophobic or racist, eh? Did I miss something in the past 100 years?

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FedUpL8ly

Jul-02-13 1:06 AM

Although he was never guilty of breaking any German laws, he was denied work after eight years in Germany. This is their nation's law intended to preserve their society according to the wishes of their citizens. Now, I ask you, does this make Germans racists, xenophobes or haters. WHY should a country be forced to allow anyone in the world to reside within their borders and among their citizens? Especially when those coming have no common language nor religion and then, to top it off, rather than assimilate the immigrants insist that society change to accommodate their beliefs. I join with Lone on this point, please give me examples of countries that adhere to these policies.

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FedUpL8ly

Jul-02-13 12:52 AM

C'mon HenryH, someone as intelligent as yourself is fully aware that your examples of mobile populations moving across porous borders in E. Africa and Europe is a bogus analogy to our "open border" policy. First off, E. Africa is comprised of nomadic populations and weak central governments with foreign intrusions checked by tribal interests, none of which apply to America. And using European cross-border travel is equally bogus. While travel is certainly easier across borders EU members, the border crossings do not confer citizenship nor do they allow unrestricted residency. A more pertinent example that refutes your position is as follows. I have a Bosnian friend who came to this country in the late 90's. Due to the Bosnian economy being decimated by their conflict with Serbia, he had to go to Germany to work in a steel mill in order to support his family. His family was not allowed to live in Germany with him. They were required to stay in Bosnia. Cont.)

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 3:42 PM

OK, Doggie. Much of Eastern Africa has mobile populations with porous borders. Then, there is the EU with people moving easily between these countries. Those are the easy ones. With in the former USSR, there is a de facto use of southern labor especially in Moscow. Lip service is paid to keeping these people out of 'Mother Russia' but again, Russia, like the US, needs the cheap and flexible labor. So those are the ones I've seen personally.

So, you see no trouble calling a group of people lazy? I doubt you have one ounce of compassion for anyone. I'm disappointed such a person would live in our community. I really hope you find a way to drop that chip on your shoulder.

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 2:20 PM

Doggie, with your last post, can you honestly say you are not with prejudice? For a PR resident to learn English is as easy as it is for you to learn Spanish. Neither is the prevailing language.

Additionally, the Median Income in PR is $19,370 as compared to $41,432 for our County. If you remove fuel, heating and over priced education, very quickly our median income looks very comparable to PRs. Lazy has nothing to do it. Feddie is going to say I am attacking you. So be it. You give our community a bad name.

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 1:12 PM

Why would either change to Puerto Rico's status matter? Clearly, people living there are not going to loose their US citizenship. Also, if we cast aside PR, what about Guam and the Virgin Islands? What about the other administered territories around the world? Again, Lone, where is the argument? Where is your definition of benefits and change of the status quo?

Articulate your position and provide reasoning. To offer a fait accompli without defined benefit is nonsensical.

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 1:06 PM

Lone, now answer the second part. Go away from the defined border crossings and look. The northern border is largely unsecured. Also, bad guys don't introduce themselves and declare their intentions.

All I want for you Lone is that you critically review the world around you. If you think the security theatre at the Peace Bridge will keep you safe, you are all too willing to give up your freedom.

I'm not going to go one about your last comment but all I would say is that I would be very sad to live your vision of our country. It feels very Orwellian.

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 12:54 PM

Houston, well stated. Ignore the Dislikes. They know not what they do.

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 12:53 PM

Lone, what do you have against Puerto Rico? How will legislating English change anything? How will it affect those who receive benefits which you seem to so strongly dislike as people and as members of our community? Your argument does not add up.

Additionally, you are a supporter of Snowy and his band of merry TEA men? How does adding more laws align with such a position? Are we going to have 'language' police? You are aware they do have those under the Taliban and the across the Arabian peninsula? Seems like you are advocating similar.

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 12:46 PM

Lone and Doggie, when was the last time either of you crossed one of our national borders be it air, land or sea? Have you been to the St. Lawrence River or the Rio Grande and looked at the 'security'? Have you driven the any of the coast system in the South to view that security? Did you see any?

The fact is that terrorist will not and do not sneak into the Country. They are well organized. 'Security theatre' only seeks to placate the masses into a false sense of security. The only security we have is an open society and engaged public. We cannot keep out those who wish to harm us.

Again Doggie, before you scream 'leftie', do reflect upon your political platforms.

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Houston

Jul-01-13 12:20 PM

I am saddened when I see people so viciously opposed to others.We are the melting pot of the world, we are supposed to be proud of that. Instead we sit by and make our country look like a melting pot of hate and oppression. Would you even offer a thirsty Hispanic a glass of water?

The former Navigator was located at a charity and the costs were covered by donations, as I understand it. So who is it hurting? If the money to fund the project isn't coming from the government or your pocket why do you care so much? The majority of the people that use that service are from Puerto Rico and they are American citizens too. If nobody helps them learn English how will they get jobs? or perhaps you think it is better for them to not learn or get help and continue on welfare because they don't speak the language? And make no comparisons with Swedish or Italians... Those were very different times, back then this was a Boom Town. Now we have nothing to offer but welfare... Get a grip.

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 11:27 AM

Peanut Gallery - How do you square your circle? I see the likes/dislikes and it is if you are not even considering what you are advocating. I know many are supporters of the TEA Party movement which party advocates for fewer laws. My position has been that laws are not required to legislate language. My second point is that it seems there is an association of xenophobia with the author's point of view.

So tell me, you want no taxes and you want a smaller government yet you want to create laws to legislate culture and communication? How are these positions not diametrically opposed?

Feddie has made an argument on cost grounds and it is the only argument thus far which is reasonably plausible to the aforementioned position. Will someone please articulate how your argument holds together and how this is not bias?

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HenryH

Jul-01-13 8:51 AM

To address the concerns about criminal-illegals, I have not seen Schumer advocate for this position. Although I find him lacking in my representation, I also do not see him outwardly supporting the subversion of the rule of law. Clearly, in the immigration code there is a 'moral character' clause and this is commonly enforced. No one, from what I can see, is advocating otherwise.

In regards to Obama, I don't count the political posturing. I have only used the Census numbers which stand at 12 million in 2010. That number can be broken down state by state. I care not to engage in the political, only the factual, and that there well may be more but according to the Census, for the next 10 years, it is only 12 million.

What's the solution, Feddie? If you expel those 12 million, our agro-economy grinds to a halt. Costs rise. Taxes rise. America needs cheap labor and we allow it exist for our own benefit. The social benefits the population receives is a small sum to the GDP benefit.

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