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Who Needs A KGB If You Have An IRS?

June 17, 2013

To The Readers' Forum: At a peaceful demonstration in front of the IRS office in Jamestown, a sign said, "If we were deer, it would be called poaching....

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Jun-21-13 10:17 AM

Wiki "As defined in the legislation, the tax rate is 23% for the first year. This percentage is based on the total amount paid including the tax ($23 out of every $100 spent in total). This would be equivalent to a 30% traditional U.S. sales tax ($23 on top of every $77 spent—$100 total).[4] The rate would then be automatically adjusted annually based on federal receipts in the previous fiscal year.[5] With the rebate taken into consideration, the FairTax would be progressive on consumption,[2] but would also be regressive on income at higher income levels (as consumption falls as a percentage of income).[6][7] Opponents argue this would accordingly decrease the tax burden on high-income earners and increase it on the middle class."

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Jun-21-13 10:15 AM

Snow: Factcheck**** "In our recent article on the second GOP debate, we called out Gov. Mike Huckabee as well as Reps. Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter for their support of the FairTax. We wrote that the bipartisan Advisory Panel on Tax Reform had “calculated that a sales tax would have to be set at 34 percent of retail sales prices to bring in the same revenue as the taxes it would replace, meaning that an automobile with a retail price of $10,000 would cost $13,400 including the new sales tax.” A number of readers pointed out that H.R. 25, the specific bill mentioned by Gov. Huckabee, calls for a 23 percent retail sales tax and not the 34 percent used by the Advisory Panel on Tax Reform. That 23 percent number, however, is misleading and based on some extremely optimistic assumptions. We found that while there are several good economic arguments for the FairTax, unless you earn more than $200,000 per year, fairness is not one of them."

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Jun-21-13 8:26 AM

Seadog, I'm not sure what you tried to do in the last comment...but it made no sense.

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Jun-20-13 7:24 PM

"Where exactly does that bus go to?"

Between your house and Seadog's house.

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Jun-20-13 4:47 PM

"Irony-You can't take the 5th because you want to freak out crazies."

WHAT?!?!!? You mean, I made that up??!?! No wait...tell me more... grace us with your keen ability to sense satire.

All aboard the irony-bus!

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Jun-20-13 10:24 AM

IRS is worthless and so are all the politicians ruining this country!!!

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Jun-20-13 3:06 AM

Snowy, tell me how a nation the size of ours maintains itself when you remove its ability to collect tax? The question you ask at 8:44 pm about liberty. How do you provide for the basics? Each community is autonomous unto itself? How do you manage a national defence, public lands, etc?

You are saying that you will allow those under a certain level to get back the flat tax. Fine, that attacks the most basic aspect of the regressive nature of tax but it still is a tax and you still need something like the IRS to administer its collection, no?

So Snowy, please do share a solution of a holistic system which provides the clear outcome of liberty. You make it sound so simple yet I cannot find a model of it anywhere which provides free markets, individual protections (BoR) and no economic burden to citizens. You want a panacea, no?

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Jun-19-13 11:57 PM

"There are far to many on the left that think they are better then anyone who disagrees with them."

The irony made me chuckle. Look in a mirror once in a while.

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Jun-19-13 8:57 PM

Lone: could you please take a break until you have some original, non-Fox-motivated thinking to copy and paste? Without rancor, I've always perceived you sympathetically as a bit like Bobby C. in Saturday Night Fever--desperate for acceptance by his perceived peers. Please feel free to post your true feelings. Again, no disrespect.

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Jun-19-13 8:48 PM

Phar, the Fair Tax may not fit your idea of fairness but what is more fair than Fair Tax for fairness? You say it is 30%. The figure I've seen is 24% Where do you get your figure from? You call it regressive, but how regressive is it when everyone gets a pre-bate up to the poverty level to cover the basic necessities like food and clothing?

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Jun-19-13 8:44 PM

I think that this discussion illustrates the point that the IRS needs to be once and for all abolished. Why should any group or citizen have to answer questions to the government about what they make, who they meet with, what books they read and what prayers they say. This is so ant-thetical to a nation of freedom. What does the IRS have to do with liberty and liberty with the IRS?

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Jun-19-13 5:58 PM

"How can you possibly incriminate yourself by claiming you have a staffing problem?"

If she can't incriminate herself, then why are you so concerned she took the 5th? hahahahahaha...

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Jun-19-13 5:57 PM

"Why do you think Lois Lerner took the fifth?"

To freak out some of the crazies in this country. If she did it for that reason, she did a bang-up job! I'm not afraid to admit I know little about the scandal; perhaps this is because I cancelled my subscription to "Spood-Fed Nonsense by Pundits Monthly".

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Jun-19-13 2:43 PM

Wow. Just, wow. There has been no shortage of brick throwing by glass house owners here, that's for sure.

For one, I have not the foggiest idea why Lois Lerner decided the 5th was in her interest, and neithr do any of you. We may never know.

On reviews only hurting the conservtive groups, that's a joke. Several much less thin skinned liberal group have come forward, and the story is the same: plenty of questions to answer and years getting approved.

This is really an issue of staffing (too few to do the job) and failure to provide guidance. Yet, there is something here to see, but not what you think. It's a case of one party hating government so much that it systematically attacked it, primarily by defunding it.

In short, you get what you don't pay for.

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Jun-19-13 1:52 PM

Lone, you brilliant so-and-so, you! I'm pleased those classes at Prendergast Library learning how to use Wikipedia have paid off and you are showing such amazing progress.

I have no rhetoric of anarchism - I support the opposite in contrast to Snowy's position.

You do not understand the words you have pasted. I don't have any belief that there should be centrally owned means of production.

While I applaud your extending the use of your two (or is it three now?) brain cells, your googling of socialism and libertarian to reach the first item in the Google search clearly did not serve you well.

Again, I do encourage you to work on your reading comprehension. And, like our buddy Credence, you spend more time deflecting the real question instead of articulating your position.

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Jun-19-13 11:12 AM

Go to the Wikipedia page (let alone source material) for the 5th and you'll find quite a long read. It might prove to be quite a struggle for some of the posters here.

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Jun-19-13 11:11 AM

Never said I was an expert.

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Jun-19-13 6:16 AM

Interesting that Lone suggests he use "libertarian" in lieu of "lefty" when the definition he copies and pastes aligns pretty well with his positions, along with those of snow, et al.

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Jun-18-13 10:20 PM

Interesting how the Constitutional and Law scholars in this forum can do such a good job simplifying The Fifth Amendment. I also appreciate the very logical conclusions made. Bravo.

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Jun-18-13 6:25 PM

I would think she took the fifth because it looks bad. Not illegal. Anything she said would have been twisted so you stop talking and don't give them ammunition.

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Jun-18-13 5:58 PM

Regressive taxation is not a fair system. Having a system in which rewards risk and utilization of capital is important. I agree with Snowy that simplification of the tax code and removal of loopholes is important. His complaint about the system is not a solution. I would rather have him pose a solution instead of implying anarchy is the only way forward.

Lone baby, you only sing one note! Why is it that everyone who disagrees with you or expects you to provide evidence and reasoning to your broad-brush statements is a 'leftie'. I still see no evidence you have any clear understanding of your own ontology. It would be fantastic if you could work on your articulation and that does not mean copy and paste of some random titbit.

Remember Lone, I agree with Snowy but disagree with the implied solution is removal of the IRS. The core issue is never addressed and it is just wrapped in the same old rhetoric. Not helpful if you want meaningful change.

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Jun-18-13 10:38 AM

Snow: You want a 30% national sales tax that would eliminate the tax advantage for charitable contributions and do away with the parsonage exemption? Can you explain how taking more from those with less wile allowing those with more to keep more is a increase in fairness?

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Jun-17-13 10:39 PM

Lone, there is no scandal. It's gov't employees doing their job. They profiled groups that are overtly political applying for tax exempt status under the guise of being politically unbiased. That they got that tax exempt status is the real issue here.

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Jun-17-13 10:26 PM

I thought it was hilarious when the commish referred to us as "customers." Customers are people who voluntarily spend money in return for a product or service they desire to have. The IRS does not have customers. Comments like that are indisputable proof that the government has completely lost touch with the people it is supposedly serving and is completely ignorant of its intended purpose for society.

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Jun-17-13 8:21 PM

No Phar, I'm not biting the hand that feeds me, but trying to loose the grip on big brother's hand that binds all of us who pay payroll and income taxes. The country was set up for us to have control over all that we earn so that we can determine fully what we spend and give. This corrupt system of taxation gives the government to power to take what it wants from us rather than leaving what we have alone. The Flat tax is sure better than what we have now, but even better is the Fair Tax which taxes indirectly on consumption and not directly as it does now on wages, earnings, capital gains etc. It's about freedom, not money.

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