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In Defense Of A Pastor’s Views

May 24, 2013

To The Reader’s Forum: A recent letter not only labels Jeff Short’s religion as “hate,” but misunderstands and attacks Christianity itself....

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Jun-08-13 9:41 AM

You still haven't provided any credible evidence - the Fox "News" story is hardly credible - where nondiscrimination laws have caused or increased crimes in ladies' rooms. You're dreaming up doomsday scenarios without a shred of evidence.

Adding gender identity to our state's nondiscrimination law will not cause, increase or excuse any kind of crimes. No matter how often you repeat your imagined, fear mongering, fantasies about trans women in public restrooms, it still has ZERO basis in fact.

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Jun-08-13 9:36 AM

""No harm done"??? How about being confronted by a MAN in a ladies room when you don"t expect it?"

Again, your reading comprehension is defective, Seadog. The trans woman in question was minding her own business, washing her hands. The cis woman is the one who started the confrontation.

"How about if "she" decides to get a little 'by accident'?"

You're fantasizing again. Stop making things up so you can argue against them. It proves your prejudice on top of being a fallacy called a straw man argument.

The fact is that trans people do not decide "to get a little 'by accident'" as you so crudely put it. If they did, there would be records of it, since doing so would be a crime punishable by arrest and prosecution. You still haven't provided any credible evidence - the Fox "News" story is hardly credible - where nondiscrimination laws have caused or increased crimes in ladies' rooms. You're dreaming up doomsday s

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Jun-04-13 11:34 PM

Yes, there is NO law against you going into a ladies room, Seadog. What keeps you out is social convention and cultural norms. You might get screamed at by someone but as long as you don't commit a crime, like peeking or harassment, you wouldn't get arrested.

A good lawyer could even argue that nondiscrimination law, because it covers sex, would protect you from prosecution if you just went into the ladies', as long as you didn't behave badly.

Cultural norms and social conventions are powerful things, aren't they?

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Jun-04-13 11:29 PM

First of all, Starnes has been caught reporting stories that have been, let's say, less than truthful, Seadog. He's an obvious right wing propagandist. His article was published on Fox "News," an organization that has never been hesitant to twist the facts of a story to make it more sensational. The article in not credible.

Second, even an article from a proved right wing propagandist (he makes speeches for hate groups!) didn't show any harm done by the trans person. As a matter of fact, I could rewrite the article, titling it, "Trans Woman Assaulted in Restaurant Restroom by Irate Customer." It wasn't the trans person who make a scene.

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Jun-04-13 9:47 AM

New York State has no laws that cover who should use which public restroom. GENDA is about employment, housing, credit and public accommodations discrimination on the basis of gender expression/identity. It's more about getting and/or keeping a job (which keeps people off of welfare), getting or keeping decent housing and being able to use public services like restaurants and hotels. There is no credible evidence of any harm done by adding gender identity to nondiscrimination laws.

The first such inclusion was in 1976, in Minneapolis, Minnesota. You would think that after 37 years, and the passage of similar laws in 16 states, along with more than 160 counties, cities and towns, you could find some widespread examples of *actual* harm, Seadog. But you can't, can you?

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Jun-04-13 9:43 AM

First of all, Seadog, plagiarizing the factually challenged Todd Starnes of Fox "News" doesn't grant you a lot of credibility. Second of all, did the article mention anything harmful or criminal being done? Or was this woman's outrage merely a reaction against someone's appearance? The article also talks about just one woman's bad reaction. None of the other women in line said anything?

The evidence (as far as it can believed since it came from Starnes) shows that the incident was precipitated by one woman's prejudice and discrimination. How does this support your opposition to GENDA in any way? It doesn't.

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Jun-03-13 2:26 PM

Wow! Who is this Seadog person who doesn't even know when he's being mocked? It looks like his reading comprehension is broken.

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Jun-01-13 11:32 PM

Here's a suggestion, Seadog. Why not try holding your breath until I do what you demand of me? It might make me do it faster!

This strategy would fit in quite well with the rest of your fantastical thinking! try it for a half hour or so, you can let us know how it worked.

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Jun-01-13 2:13 PM

You just keep making yourself feel better about it by denying the truth, Seadog. Everyone else with a brain can see through your delusions.

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May-31-13 2:20 PM

You don't really read my posts, do you, Seadog? Or is it that your memory is so defective that you don't remember what you've read? Perhaps it's the complete lack of self awareness that so many people in the right wing seem to suffer from?

Since you didn't get it the first time, there's no reason to repeat myself.

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May-30-13 2:15 PM

I'm surprised that this discussion has gone on so long when the commentary,

htt p://ww m/page/content.detail/i d/622807/Tell-Legislators-To-Support-Gender-Non-Discrimination.html?nav=5071

has only 20 replies. Doesn't anyone read the commentaries when they're done with the letters?

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May-30-13 2:12 PM

. . . makes you look either like a knucklehead or a dangeerous criminal.

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May-30-13 2:10 PM

"Who, when, and where did anyone on this forum threatened to out you Emely [sic]?."

huh? What?? Who's talking about someone else outing me? You must be thinking of someone else or some other discussion.

"And yes Emely, I would use violence to protect my grandchildren whether is is a man, woman, of he/ she that I thought were a danger to them. Now if you have male equipment, use the men's room."

Again, this is publicly threatening to use violence against someone you "thought" was a danger to your grandkids. What will you base your thoughts on? How are you going to know what kind of equipment anyone has when they go into a restroom that contains your grandchildren? Are you just going to guess or will you be doing panty checks at the door? Lol!

Your irrational replies keep proving the absolute dearth of real thought and actual facts you've applied to this issue, Seadog, and your repeated posturing makes you look either like a knucklehead or a dange

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May-30-13 12:11 PM

"Nah you didn't want to know about it as a teenager. Might have warped you into a liberal."

Because science and facts are the last thing "conservatives" want to know, loneriderrr1?

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May-30-13 12:06 PM

Many transgender people, trans women and trans women of color in particular, are very safety minded. It seems that some people think it's OK to beat up, etc. any "man" that has the temerity to reject "his" patriarchal privileges.

Physical or sexual violence against trans people due to transphobia or homophobia, is a common occurrence for trans people. Every 3 days a murder of a trans person is reported, and many murders are believed to go unreported. Hate crimes against trans people are common even recently, and in some instances, inaction by police or other government officials leads to the untimely deaths of transgender victims. Sometimes it's even the police that perpetrate the assaults.

GENDA is not a direct solution for these crimes but it will help indirectly. Being able to have and keep a decent job and place to live makes it easier to stay away from the criminal element that trans people have to live among because of their poverty.

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May-30-13 11:59 AM

Threats: "No monkey, it (violence) doesn't solve everything, but I'm sure HE will think twice about using the women's room, especially when there a young girls using it."

"If my granddaughters told me there was a man in the bathroom they were using, he'd know his gender when he got a swift kick in the b__ls."

"If you are a man, use the men's room, if a woman, use the women's room. Very simple. Don't know which one you are, wear Depends, but if you are a male, stay the*****out of the women's room, or don't cry about the consequences!"

Since you've repeatedly denied the fact that trans women are indeed women, Seadog, these threats show that you're willing to use violence against someone just because you don't like who they are or what they look like. If you're willing to put things like the above in writing, it's not a big stretch to believe you, or some other readers here, have worse in your thoughts.

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May-29-13 11:36 PM

Stop assuming that trans women are "really men" or that trans men are "really women" and most of the questions being raised against this bill resolve themselves. Narrow mindedly insisting that genitalia trumps brain sex, despite overwhelming scientific evidence against that view, is simply incorrect.

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May-29-13 11:33 PM

"For knowing so much about the subject, you are very thin on answers. That's OK though, kind of hard to argue something or answer questions when the only thing you have is an agenda."

I've given plenty of answers but you seem to be unwilling or unable to accept them. Your charge is ridiculous.

"And finally, you are asking to pass a law based on a very SMALL group of people. SMALL you say? Until you can site statistics and numbers, I guess this law is needless. What's next, a law protecting people that identify with cats and dogs?"

There are statistics and numbers in the reports I linked to earlier. In that same post I noted that you would probably not look at them. This response proves that you didn't. Your ridiculous straw man also proves that you have no intention of accepting anything other than your own narrow preconceptions. Why should I repeat myself for nothing? I won't.

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May-29-13 11:28 PM

"I was asking YOU about examples of your being discriminated against." Most of the items mentioned in that study apply to me. I'm not going to go into specifics because I'm unwilling to divulge details that will allow the people in this forum who have already uttered threats to identify me. I've been discriminated against in employment, particularly.

"REALLY? A REAL woman has a uterus, tubes, a real vagina, and female DNA. WHAT'S your definition?"

Every definition of what a woman is comes with exceptions, Seadog. I'm not going to get into the weeds of this discussion, largely because I know you aren't coming into it with any open mindedness. This information is available on the internet, you can find it yourself if you really care.

You have the opportunity, Seadog, to go back and read my 41 previous posts in this thread to find what I've written about locker rooms and showers. I'm not going to repeat myself for your convenience.

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May-29-13 9:47 PM

Mel would be so proud of you two.

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May-29-13 3:38 PM

"Oh and one last thing, just give an estimate of how many of you are out there. Until a few years ago, this wasn't an issue. People were content just being drag queens, is that P.C.? Oh well, 'these times are a changing'."

What difference does population size have to do with the idea of civil rights protections? NYS already has those protections for things like race, ethnicity, religion, sex and sexual orientation. Every human being on the planet has a gender identity. Your question is irrelevant.

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May-29-13 3:36 PM

"Civil rights you say?? Please site where have you been discriminated against. Do you have problems voting?? Problems riding mass transportation? Problems receiving medical benefits?"

For an extensive report on the harmful discrimination that trans people suffer from read this report:

ht tp://w ww.thetaskforce. org/reports_and_research/ntds

Here's a report on the cost of anti-transgender discrimination in our state:

ht tp://

(Not that I think you'll actually look at these, Seadog, but for others who might be a little more open minded)

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May-29-13 3:31 PM

"So WHERE would your "trans person" shower if at the Y, or a public pool if he had male equip. but thinks he's a woman, breasts and all? Or a WOMAN who thinks he's a man shower??"

I already covered this earlier, are you having trouble remembering or are you purposely ignoring it so you can hold onto your preconceptions?

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May-29-13 3:30 PM

"YES, they share bathrooms with REAL WOMEN - not SOME MALE WANNABE."

Your definition of what makes a woman "real" is faulty, Seadog, and you still haven't given us any real life examples of the harm that adding gender identity to NY state's nondiscrimination laws will do. I guess we can assume then that there is no real harm at all and you are just basing your opposition on aversive animus and ill informed prejudice?

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May-29-13 3:27 PM

'm quite aware of that, Monkeyboy, but it's not for them that I reply. They are good examples of ignorant narrow mindedness whose faults and deficiencies are more and more clearly illustrated the more they post.

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