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Creating A Path To Fiscal Reform

January 13, 2013

To the Readers’ Forum: In December 2010, the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform released “The Moment of Truth....

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Jan-18-13 7:21 PM

My question on illegal's taking our jobs from us is, it's illegal to hire them so why aren't we putting the business owners in jail? They should be classified as traitors to our nation and be on death row. Why punish people looking for employment? It's not against the law to look for a job but it is against the law to hire and illegal. Put the blame where it belongs.

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Jan-16-13 2:55 PM

HenryH, you say Obama is merely continuing programs previously in place but fail to recognize the Obama perversions that have been put in motion. Certainly there were food stamps before, but nobody spent taxpayer money to encouraage those not eligible to apply foor said benefits. SS Disability was here before but Obama has modified eligibility procedures so that it's not uncommon that 98% of applicants are granted SS Disability for such flimsy reasons like "depression" because they're unemployed. A great many are in their 20's. And Obama gives awards to those who approve the most. Over 11 million recipients getting well over $100 Billion a year from SS and they want to cut future payments to those who paid into it for years. And, after several months, those millions of 20-somethings can go on Medicare. This after never contributing to either program. Maybe you could see it if you weren't so busy congratulating yourself on how compassionate you are compared to others.

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Jan-16-13 11:36 AM

ya "no one wants to be on welfare" is a farce. unless you put it in the context of "i wish i could win millions in the lottery" then yes, no one wants to be on welfare lol. but until an able-bodied welfare recipient hits a big lottery i'm pretty sure that person is not in a big hurry to find a job. any job.

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Jan-16-13 2:20 AM

FedUp, I'm willing to bed you will slam anything that is not from Fox News. Wikipedia has become as factually based as any common resource. There are some elements which are actually far more detailed and balanced than old-time encyclopaedias. Also, if you look at those articles, they are balanced and are robust. How about a bit of critical thought not trapped in your dogma? I don't care in which party you sit. A thinking man (or woman if you may be) can use their faculties to dissect this information to find a balanced and robust critical viewpoint. I have hope for you yet.

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Jan-16-13 2:14 AM

Lone, um .. well .. I'm not sure where your left turn came. Thanks for the quote about libertarianism. While I have respect for you as my fellow citizen and would fight to preserve your freedoms, I am sad that you exhibit such xenophobic viewpoints. You are welcome to them. Do remember, I am not advocating for illegal immigration. I am saying that we cannot end it as we are dependant upon it. Going back to the original point, global pressures will remove antiquated establishments such as USPS. You cannot protect our economy from change. Your rhetoric is just like that of the early 1800s when the East Coast had an influx of new immigrants and became industrialized.

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Jan-16-13 2:08 AM

Seadog, people are on welfare because they cannot do what you ask. No one wants to be on welfare. You enjoy kicking these people but the fact is that in capitalism there are losers. You can bundle up all the welfare recipients you wish and send them to undertake these jobs but the fact is they will not do them and they are incapable, for a myriad of reasons. Stop kicking the poor and defenceless. With exception of a small percentage, most receiving benefits are doing so for a reason outside their control. As such, I expect you are spending your extra time volunteering and providing peer-to-peer education, helping people improve their reading, writing and arithmetic skills and investing in ensuring those less fortunate have the skills to help our local economy? If not, you need to put down that stone and step out of your glass house.

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Jan-16-13 2:04 AM

FedUp, I'm not entitled. As a matter of fact, I am saying no one is. Again, your own biases are causing you issues. You blame Obama. Obama has only continued policies that were put in place 20 years ago and this not an elephant and donkey issue. If you think USDA is overboard, you should see what the Commerce Department does via the DoS and USAID. That would really put your panties in a bunch.

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Jan-15-13 5:56 PM

HenryH, you're enlightened? sources are a liberal org. and Wikipedia which has been proven time and again to be not much more than a chat room insofar as reliability. Here's some sources for you, Center for Immigration Studies,in 2010, "36% of "immigrant-headed households" used at least one federal welfare program as opposed to only 23% of citizen-headed households. TWO MILLION visa holders using federal aid programs and it's gone much higher since. USDA has sponsored "soap operas" on Spanish-network TV encouraging illegals to sign up for food stamps. This is a violation of the Immigration and Nationality Act but breaking the law is a common trait with this president. And this didn't come from Fox but you are a fool to think that Fox isn't more responsible than the rest of the networks.

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Jan-15-13 4:34 PM

In case the peanut gallery would wish to engage with non-Fox News information base. Remove the spaces after copying into your browser. PJ Editor: Please upgrade this discussion software to allow source references and join the modern age of discussions.

Well rounded and challenging view: cis . org / High-Cost-of-Cheap-Labor Excellent for links: en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States Balanced review: factcheck**** / 2010 / 05 / does-immigration-cost-jobs/

Published in AZ: / C5LkC

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Jan-15-13 4:24 PM

Lone, what is your ilk? You love to call names. Sadly, you hide behind an alias and use cowardly language. Socially and economically, I am far more consideration than you but I am much more discerning in my viewpoints. I am not advocating for illegal immigration, if you would have read my posts and removed your own bias. I am saying that the it exists to ensure the economy continues to pump out cheap lettuce and strawberries as well as cheap meat and poultry. Believe me, you do not want to go to Iowa and work in a slaughter house or spend your afternoon picking advocates in the California heat. To have enough labor for these jobs, the rate would be significantly higher than want is paid now and you would have a very expensive grocery bill. How about a bit more thinking and tad less rhetoric on your part? We'd all benefit.

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Jan-15-13 4:17 PM

Sea, I do not employ non-documented workers in the United States or any nation state in which I conduct business. My business would not benefit from the employment of low skill labor which is the majority of our illegal immigrant population.

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Jan-15-13 4:12 PM

FedUp, you've been watching way too much Fox News. I've seen those numbers and the research is circumspect. It is double counting budget numbers and is anti-American assuming that people born of immigrant parents, regardless of their stage of legality, has a negative impact on economic outputs. You can keep your scaremongering of the Fox News nitwits. Bring some true research to the table and we'll talk.

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Jan-15-13 4:08 PM

Formerly, I don't care if there illegals or not. You are assuming too much about the argument. Your existing laws you speak of are designed as they are to allow the shadow system to exist. Happy to detail all of this. Additionally, I can provide you the various links to the journal articles which set out the empirical data. Hanson, out of San Deigo, has some interesting papers and Pew Research did a few articles which set out a well balanced set of research.

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Jan-15-13 12:55 PM

HenryH, you're a victim of "misinformation". The figure that gets the most concensus is $100 Billion. THAT is the net cost to the U.S. each year by illegal immigrants. They don't take jobs that Americans don't want, they just take them for less money than Americans are willing to take. So some American businesses profit at the expense of the rest of us but in the long run we all lose. The illegals getting free public ed. and free healthcare costs our economy much more than they contribute. Democrats encourage this, not out of compassion but to profit from this in the form of votes. One other point I'd like to make is the different definitions of the word "compromise". Lately, compromise meant Republicans giving Democrats about 95% of what they wanted. There has been no meeting in the middle. As a result, when people insist on no further compromise what they are saying is it's going to be a lot closer to 50/50 from now on.

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Jan-15-13 12:13 PM

it's that same "ahhh to h*ll with it" attitude that's resulted in "participation awards" for kids that finish in 7th place. it's that same attitude that degraded our own work ethic. it's that same attitude that has us pushing our lawmakers to "forgive" student loans. it's that same attitude that has our students falling behind, on a global level, in vital areas such as math, science, & technology.

we have a great (& amazingly simple) naturalization process that you would let fall by the wayside in the name of a bigger bottom line. you say certain areas of the economy would collapse without illegals because americans don't wanna do the work. well, why do americans not wanna do the work that illegals do? isn't that the more important question & the question we should be addressing? maybe americans are barely smart enough to understand that if they don't wanna take a menial job, like day laborer/fruit picker, then uncle sam has their back

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Jan-15-13 12:01 PM

henry can you name some of the economists studying economics (lol) & policy that advocate without illegal labor our economy would collapse?

also, what is so hard about becoming a citizen in the typical fashion? you know what i'm talking about? the way our grandparents & great grandparents did it.

"with minor policy changes, we could modify the tax issue to collect taxes, but.."

or we could enforce the existing legislation we already have before we go dreaming up new legislation, wasting more time than has already been wasted.

it sounds as if you just wanna give 'em a free pass...

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Jan-15-13 6:39 AM

Lone, I'm libertarian and a businessman. It is about profit. You are fooling yourself if you think this is a liberal issue. Maybe the provision of a social net for illegals is but having a policy to allow for illegals to act as a needed, low cost resource in our economy is not. Your bias is destroying your ability to be critical of the whole system. You can keep your rhetoric as it does not get us anywhere.

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Jan-14-13 9:01 PM

Jazzie you even got an agree from me. I gave u several agrees tonight wink wink

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Jan-14-13 4:49 PM

Lone - WTH? Where does liberal and conservative have to do with it? I am not aware of too many liberals in the ag business.

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Jan-14-13 4:48 PM

Formerly, case in point - the fruit industry. Also, there are other industries such as construction and fishing which have these dependencies. These are not my ideas. They are widely accepted by economists which study policy and economics.

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Jan-14-13 1:44 PM

so without illegal immigrant labor our economy would come to a halt? interesting theory.

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Jan-14-13 8:08 AM

By the way, if you worry about your identity being stolen, that can and does happen without anyone ever coming to the USA to do it. And the people who are stealing are more likely to be Russian and Chinese than Central American.

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Jan-14-13 8:06 AM

Jazzie, you should do some research into what types of jobs "illegals" take. In reality, these people assume jobs which no one wants in places no one wants to live. They are not taking "well paid American jobs". In reality, without this labor and the utility it provides, our economy would come to a halt. That is why the government does "Security Theatre". Illegal migrants are a resource which many businesses need to stay competitive. With minor policy changes, we could modify the tax issue to collect taxes but we rather make it a political issue which means little in practice. Just google the economics of it. There are really smart people who have exposed the fallacy that these people take jobs.

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Jan-13-13 6:43 PM

In my opinion, you are absolutely right Jazzie.

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Jan-13-13 6:30 PM

So Henry, by YOUR standards, you support illegals who come over here, steal someone's ID, steal a job from a normal taxpaying citizen like me, even not pay taxes? Man dude I thought I was trippy. I could say this about our people in other countries illegally but there's one prob, Bob: We'd be in jail before you knew it.

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